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Player Relation message: For the Community by the Community


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Gods_Power #41 Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:01 PM

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I fail to understand the merits of that decision, i cannot see what the benefits of reddit vs a centralized forum hosted by WG should be and the downsides are massive.

 

1. Reddit does not provide the structure to sort feedback in a way that it is easily acessible for developers. Do you want your devs to find the relevant bug reports/ feedback threads inbetween all other posts on community content, videos, memes etc. You will force the devs waste so much time reading through the new posts.

 

1.5 This also goes for the players, searching for anything particular is tedious on reddit, i use reddit for updates on games and entertainment, but it is not the place for gameplay discussions.

 

2. You are making your communication besides twitter completly dependent on a few people that are in no work relation to you. They are free to do whatever they want with the subreddit and the discord and you cannot do anything about it. Moderation and content controll is completly out of your hands, which is unbelievable since it is the official platform to talk to CA and WG now.

 

 



Ardougne #42 Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:10 PM

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View PostGods_Power, on 21 February 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

I fail to understand the merits of that decision, i cannot see what the benefits of reddit vs a centralized forum hosted by WG should be and the downsides are massive.

 

1. Reddit does not provide the structure to sort feedback in a way that it is easily acessible for developers. Do you want your devs to find the relevant bug reports/ feedback threads inbetween all other posts on community content, videos, memes etc. You will force the devs waste so much time reading through the new posts.

 

1.5 This also goes for the players, searching for anything particular is tedious on reddit, i use reddit for updates on games and entertainment, but it is not the place for gameplay discussions.

 

2. You are making your communication besides twitter completly dependent on a few people that are in no work relation to you. They are free to do whatever they want with the subreddit and the discord and you cannot do anything about it. Moderation and content controll is completly out of your hands, which is unbelievable since it is the official platform to talk to CA and WG now.

 

 

To take these points in order.

 

1. We have enabled a robust link flair system that can be used to sort entries by various types and filter out entries they are not interested in. By clicking one button they can see the posts relevant to their purpose. WG has also arranged for a bug megathread to be created for each patch to ensure bugs get to them. That thread will be pinned so it doesnt get buried.

 

1.5 this is more a matter of opinion. Discussions can still be had on reddit, just like on a forum.

 

2. I think most people would be happy that WG or CA vant moderate the discussions and hide things they dont want seen. To address your point, we are committed to being open about our decision making and any moderation that occurs. Obviously this would never have happened if WG didnt have some level of trust for this group of volunteers.


 


Gods_Power #43 Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:33 PM

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1. Yeah i saw that, now you just need to be a bit more specific with the flairs so devs can search for exactly for feedback on their workfield and then we actually have the structure of the forum again.

 

1.5 Yeah definitly; checked some 10k upvote discussion posts on the lol subreddit, there are no new posts anymore after 2 days. I remember having discussions over weeks and actually getting a lot from those on the forums, reddit discussions are just insanely short lived.

 

2. That is the problem: the foundation of their player communication should not be built on the trust in some volunteers.



PeLLaSG0S #44 Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:00 PM

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View PostBronze_Spear, on 21 February 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

 

LoL, the forums lost a lot of hits when the FAKE "Official Discord server" was allowed to be FALSELY advertised as OFFICIAL that's when the forums went down hill as that Discord is ran by a horrible bunch (actually there was big thread about this LONG ago that got deleted all in favoritism of the FAKE "Official Discord" XD).............So luck to all  and may the community RIP...........This is just plain non sense

 

 

 

 

As a matter of fact that particular DISCORD has the American side player base so castrated that NO ONE will dare ever speak out against the people who are in control of it on the NA forum.............They use their Pretorian status to make all the people think they have some ALL mighty power and can make it hard on any who oppose them to be able to enjoy the game so people just KEEP QUIET............That's pure garbage for the community........XD...........AE outzzzzz and to all a merry LATERzzzzzzz

 

Well this posts reminds me something.....Oh hold on a second...i found it....

 

http://forum.totalwa...d-you-fan-made/

 

Guess who was the first guy who demanded this FAKE "Official Discord server" should change title in the forum....

 

For those who dont know it yet...just go and check the link....and check a small story behind this FAKE "Official Discord server"  if you have spare time...if not...dont even bother...

 

 

Now back to ths subject.....

 

In my opinion its a huge mistake to close the forum...

 

You are going to shut down entirely your communication with the community....at least the most of it....

It seems you are evaluating more your American fans than the Europeans Russian Asians etc....

Reddit is mostly used by Americans...created by Americans....for the Americans(ok i exaggerate a bit on this one but its truth...mostly Americans are using it)....We dont use it that much in Europe...they dont use it that much in the rest of the world...

 

"Reddit is an American social news aggregation, web content rating, and discussion website. Registered members submit content to the site such as links, text posts, and images, which are then voted up or down by other members" Wikipedia

 

Thumbs up and thumbds down???? You can kiss our european [edited]if you think that we will bother to thumbs in or thumbs down the whole time ....

What kind of feedback you think you gonna get in that thing??? Ill tell you what....BS!

 

A moba game without a forum?Do you understand what you are going to do???

Sorry but you are killing the game....its a huge decision....and when the players will find out that there is no real communication on that reditt thing then bb....project dead!

 

Its a shame ....the game has great potential but decisions like this one...its a  nono....and very soon the playerbase will turn their back if they dont have the feeling that what they write is not on the right place....

 

In my eyes this reditt thing is not user friendly  at all!!! Its ok if you want to read the news everyday ....but not to go and write a thread  or search a specific category of threads etc...

ITS BS!

 

Come on....tell us the truth at least.... you dont go to reddit because the forum is problematic or doesnt have too much of participation from its users...Its a joke....we are waiting 4 years for the game...we got sick of wipes...

 

Everyone was waiting the start of the open beta ...people would actively participate more and more in the forums....from tomorrow you would see an explosion to users posting about the game...

 

Nah you re not saying the truth on your message....and you are listening wrong people....You are listening those from that FAKE "Official Discord server"

 

You are listening american players who were never members or even players of a creative assemblys  games....

All the old total war players know what i am talking about....and we all laugh that you actually taking advice from those people....a bunch of kids who never played total war before before arena....

These guys who run this FAKE "Official Discord server" convinced you that reddit is a great place to go?Seriously you listened to them?

 

Or are you doing it intentionally one day before the start of the open beta because tomorrow would be a HELL DAY FOR THE FORUM....? Thats the second scenario....lmaoooo

 

Tomorrow it would be really fun to read those who exploited the reward system by playing tier 1-3 games vs ai and leaving the battles before they even die.....it would be really fun to read those people asking for compensation ....read why they didnt get the rewards etc etc since it was widely known that you could do that but unfortunately 2 days before the open beta one admin said that those considered afk will not be rewarded.....lmao....and everyone thought it was legit...and that the company let it happen just to give more rewards to more people....hahhaahha.....SERIOUSLY are you closing the forum because of that?Come on tell us the truth...its the last day after all...lmaoooo

 


Edited by PeLLaSG0S, 21 February 2018 - 01:34 PM.


PeLLaSG0S #45 Posted 21 February 2018 - 01:44 PM

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View PostGods_Power, on 21 February 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

 

 

2. That is the problem: the foundation of their player communication should not be built on the trust in some volunteers.

 

Well said! This is the main problem with this community from the day the game came in wg.....

 

"Volunteers"....Volunteers my [edited]....

 

They should make a wg discord channel moderated properly by wg moderators....not by "volunteers"...

 

They allowed a bunch of unknown people to undermine the project ....They made some "volunteers" and broadcasters to be responsible for the moderation of a channel where we would have direct communication with the devs?Seriously?

 

It was so hard to hire a couple a guys to do the moderation and create an official channel in discord?

A company with one of the biggest cash reserves in the world allowed the communitys communication with the devs to be moderated by a bunch of volunteers?

Was it too expensive to hire a couple of employees to do the job?

 

Is it too expensive for them to hire another couple of guys to moderate the forums and categorize the threads and make the forum look even better?

 

Nah....there is something else....but whatever it is....it will not work the way they want to...

It will backfire....

A moba game without a forum...a total war game without a forum....It might be one of the biggest mistakes i ever seen from a company before the release of the game...

 

I hope they will change their mind the last minute...


Edited by PeLLaSG0S, 21 February 2018 - 01:45 PM.


Shaun_Rasmussen #46 Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:07 PM

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I find it hard to believe that with all the resources the companies involved in this game have, they couldn't migrate and merge forums without taking them down indefinitely.  Especially right when open beta is starting and an influx of new players will be flooding with all kinds of questions and feedback.  Much of which will have already been answered on these forums.  Instead they will make all new postings on Reddit making it a bigger heap of trash than it already is.  

 

If this was truly the best way to do things it would be done for all their games, but you don't have to look hard to find a World of warships or warhammer 2 forum.



MongusDei #47 Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:20 PM

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LOL

Guys, u r going in Open Beta, biggest event in game history. And u closing forum, place where your present or future community will take knowledge about game, mechanics, guides or whatever more? This is incomperehensible decision.



PeLLaSG0S #48 Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:40 PM

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Gentlemen please visit  the link below and show them that we dont want this transition to reddit.

 

 

http://forum.totalwa...nt-want-reditt/

 

I can find any other way to show them how strongly we object to their decision....so come and vote plz.


Edited by PeLLaSG0S, 21 February 2018 - 03:21 PM.


SUNTZU_Mistrzu #49 Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:33 PM

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What we actually can do is to all create accounts on CIS server and just continue our discussions there.
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Tekay85 #50 Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:56 PM

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View PostSUNTZU_Mistrzu, on 21 February 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

What we actually can do is to all create accounts on CIS server and just continue our discussions there.

 

Or just use the other WG-Forums (WOWS and WOT) for TW:A :p

There is no need fo a new account:hiding:

 



JonatheOrange #51 Posted 21 February 2018 - 04:07 PM

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View PostSUNTZU_Mistrzu, on 21 February 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

What we actually can do is to all create accounts on CIS server and just continue our discussions there.

 

Thats not a bad idea, now to convince them to make a english section.......anyone speak russian?

Gods_Power #52 Posted 21 February 2018 - 04:12 PM

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Or just make our own forum. It will be the official in a few months anyway ^^:D

Quo_usque_pro_victoria #53 Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:14 PM

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A lot has been said already by others, I will just add a "few" things :

View Post5D__Ardez, on 20 February 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

 

Do you have any specific examples of this so far with TWA? I'd like to ensure that we don't run into any issues like that.
 

Pretty much every discussion in Discord ends up flooded by an endless flow of comments. When that many people answer to a question/remark, it's impossible to keep track of what is happening. Just take yesterday's Q and A as an example, Zwillinger missed several questions and had to ask someone to copy paste his answer again so he can see it.

The bug thread section in Discord is a nice addition (and devs seems to be quite active in it), but the same thing can happen if a lot of bugs occurr after a patch. It will be impossible to keep track of all of them. To sum it up, unless it's a discussion with less than 5 people, Discord is not a good way to have a discussion (unless you create one channel per thread, as Weskerrr said), either for bugs or (and especially) feedback

 

Let's talk aboout Reddit now :

Reddit is not a platform I'm familiar with, so I may miss a few things here. But basically, the lack of organization here is outstanding. It lacks subsections, but that can be solved I guess. Add a tavern subforum, a Feeddback subforum (with Gameplay, Factions, UI, and Maps as its subforums, for example) and others for content creators, clans, etc..

Something more concerning is how the comments are organized : the order of the comments is changing according to how many points they get, whereas here, their position is locked, which is very helpful when you come back to a thread. For example, the last time I read this thread, the last comment was Jojo's and therefore, I knew perfectly where to start reading. On Reddit, you can't as the comment can change position. Therefore, it will be a mess for everyone to keep track of a discussion and especially for developers (they will lose a lot of time searching where the comment has been added). You can change the way the comments are organized, but you will still need to search a bit for an answer's answer.

 

Moreover, the way a discussion is organized (aside from what I just pointed out) makes it hard to read and hard to get the logic or the continuity of the thread and its answers. You have people answering the main thread, then some are answering the answers, some are answering the answer's answer and so on... If I want to make a point by answering to several people, I won't be able to, or it will be hard to make a clean reference to what someone wrote (There is no quote system as far as I know) or I will have to make several and separate answers. Overall, a discussion will lose the intensity and continuation it could have had here on the forums.

 

The idea of a bug Megathread could be nice, but Reddit doesn't allow this to work. One of the reason is the lack of structure and the fact that the comments are not fixed in terms of position in the thread (see above). The second is that Reddit doesn't have the tools for complete bug reports. As I said before, I'm not familiar with Reddit, but I think that you can't link files (pictures, logs, dxdiag, replays, etc...) which is something that a bug report needs most of the time to allow the devs to see clearly what is the issue. If you can link files, please tell me.

An other issue is still linked to files : you can create (or submit) a discussion with a file, but you can't add text with it. So, how to post feedback with a replay/picture ? The same goes with bugs : how do you want to describe a bug if you can't add a picture/replay and explain what's wrong at the same time ?

 

Lastly, the last thing that slightly concerns me is that the Reddit section that will serve as forum is not run by WG or CA. Moderators are players which are not neutral to the other players (they can like or not like some players) and therefore could act differently to the same issue caused by two different players. They can forgive someone and ban someone else even though they did the same thing. I hope it won't happen, believe me, but that possibility still bothers and concerns me.

 

There are not only cons : a pro would be that it will bring a better interaction between players, CA staff and WG staff as well as grouping everyone (aside from CIS, so that's a miss). But the same could have been achieved by grouping the forums and changing adding a few things to encourage interaction between players and developers (like adding CA posts to the WG posts small window on the main page of the forum)

 

To conclude, I would love to be confident and absolutly certain, to be positive that this decision to close the forums and move to reddit is a good decision. But the high number of cons, compared to the low numbers of pros just shows that it is an awful one. Then, it could happen that it will improve a lot of things, and that I'm too pessimistic here, and that something I would like to happen as the decision probably won't be changed, but the facts exposed here and comments here are showing that it will be the opposite, I'm afraid.

 

P.S. : As this is supposed to be done for the Community, why didn't you make a poll (one per forum, then group the results) to ask the said Community what they were thinking about this idea ? That would have shown your willingness to intreact with the community as well as having its opinion. 


Edited by Quo_usque_pro_victoria, 22 February 2018 - 04:43 PM.


PeLLaSG0S #54 Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:27 PM

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View PostQuo_usque_pro_victoria, on 21 February 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

A lot has been said already by others, I will just add a "few" things :

Pretty much every discussion in Discord ends up flooded by an endless flow of comments. When that many people answer to a question/remark, it's impossible to keep track of what is happening. Just take yesterday's Q and A as an example, Zwillinger missed several questions and had to ask someone to copy paste his answer again so he can see it.

The bug thread section in Discord is a nice addition (and devs seems to be quite active in it), but the same thing can happen if a lot of bugs occurr after a patch. It will be impossible to keep track of all of them. To sum it up, unless it's a discussion with less than 5 people, Discord is not a good way to have a discussion (unless you create one channel per thread, as Weskerrr said), either for bugs or (and especially) feedback

 

Let's talk aboout Reddit now :

Reddit is not a platform I'm familiar with, so I may miss a few things here. But basically, the lack of organization here is outstanding. It lacks subsections, but that can be solved I guess. Add a tavern subforum, a Feeddback subforum (with Gameplay, Factions, UI, and Maps as its subforums, for example) and others for content creators, clans, etc..

Something more concerning is how the comments are organized : the order of the comments is changing according to how many points they get, whereas here, their position is locked, which is very helpful when you come back to a thread. For example, the last time I read this thread, the last comment was Jojo's and therefore, I knew perfectly where to start reading. On Reddit, you can't as the comment can change position. Therefore, it will be a mess for everyone to keep track of a discussion and especially for developers (they will lose a lot of time searching where the comment has been added). 

 

Moreover, the way a discussion is organized (aside from what I just pointed out) makes it hard to read and hard to get the logic or the continuity of the thread and its answers. You have people answering the main thread, then some are answering the answers, some are answering the answer's answer and so on... If I want to make a point by answering to several people, I won't be able to, or it will be hard to make a clean reference to what someone wrote (There is no quote system as far as I know) or I will have to make several and separate answers. Overall, a discussion will lose the intensity and continuation it could have had here on the forums.

 

The idea of a bug Megathread could be nice, but Reddit doesn't allow this to work. One of the reason is the lack of structure and the fact that the comments are not fixed in terms of position in the thread (see above). The second is that Reddit doesn't have the tools for complete bug reports. As I said before, I'm not familiar with Reddit, but I think that you can't link files (pictures, logs, dxdiag, replays, etc...) which is something that a bug report needs most of the time to allow the devs to see clearly what is the issue. If you can link files, please tell me.

An other issue is still linked to files : you can create (or submit) a discussion with a file, but you can't add text with it. So, how to post feedback with a replay/picture ? The same goes with bugs : how do you want to describe a bug if you can't add a picture/replay and explain what's wrong at the same time ?

 

Lastly, the last thing that slightly concerns me is that the Reddit section that will serve as forum is not run by WG or CA. Moderators are players which are not neutral to the other players (they can like or not like some players) and therefore could act differently to the same issue caused by two different players. They can forgive someone and ban someone else even though they did the same thing. I hope it won't happen, believe me, but that possibility still bothers and concerns me.

 

There are not only cons : a pro would be that it will bring a better interaction between players, CA staff and WG staff as well as grouping everyone (aside from CIS, so that's a miss). But the same could have been achieved by grouping the forums and changing adding a few things to encourage interaction between players and developers (like adding CA posts to the WG posts small window on the main page of the forum)

 

To conclude, I would love to be confident and absolutly certain, to be positive that this decision to close the forums and move to reddit is a good decision. But the high number of cons, compared to the low numbers of pros just shows that it is an awful one. Then, it could happen that it will improve a lot of things, and that I'm too pessimistic here, and that something I would like to happen as the decision probably won't be changed, but the facts exposed here and comments here are showing that it will be the opposite, I'm afraid.

 

P.S. : As this is supposed to be done for the Community, why didn't you make a poll (one per forum, then group the results) to ask the said Community what they were thinking about this idea ? That would have shown your willingness to intreact with the community as well as having its opinion. 

 

http://forum.totalwa...nt-want-reditt/

 

I would love to see your structured post in here in the link above where people could actually read your concerns and help them vote!

 

and because you might be offline please allow me to copy paste your post to that link .


Edited by PeLLaSG0S, 21 February 2018 - 05:28 PM.


SUNTZU_Mistrzu #55 Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:20 PM

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View PostJonatheOrange, on 21 February 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

 

Thats not a bad idea, now to convince them to make a english section.......anyone speak russian?

 

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wolfiena #56 Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:04 AM

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View PostSUNTZU_Mistrzu, on 21 February 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

What we actually can do is to all create accounts on CIS server and just continue our discussions there.

 

Do you allow Cyrillic (Russian writing language) on the NA/EU forums? I guess no. So would be the reverse. :teethhappy:

 



Weskerrr #57 Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:06 AM

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View Postwolfiena, on 22 February 2018 - 03:04 AM, said:

 

Do you allow Cyrillic (Russian writing language) on the NA/EU forums? I guess no. So would be the reverse. :teethhappy:

 

 

The link he posted leads to a converter which translates your text into Cyrillic :P

Edited by Weskerrr, 22 February 2018 - 02:06 AM.

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wolfiena #58 Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:45 AM

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View PostWeskerrr, on 21 February 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

 

The link he posted leads to a converter which translates your text into Cyrillic :P

 

It's just a char-by-char symbol converter, not a translator. :(

Weskerrr #59 Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:13 AM

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View Postwolfiena, on 22 February 2018 - 03:45 AM, said:

 

It's just a char-by-char symbol converter, not a translator. :(

 

That way we can keep the Ruskis guessing what we're talking about :^)
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Jazz_Khanz #60 Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:34 AM

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Another good idea of WG+CA....good jobs!!!!!

 

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