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Friendly Fire - allowing to pardon a player.


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SUNTZU_JoJo #1 Posted 03 February 2018 - 02:25 AM

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I would like to suggest the following:

 

If Player 1 deals Friendly Fire to Player 2.

At the end of a match - Player 2 is given the opportunity to [pardon] Player 1 for dealing Friendly Fire.

 

This can be useful, if Player 2 feels as if the Friendly Fire dealt was good Friendly Fire, considering the circumstances on the battlefield.

 

As a result of this, Player 1 doesn't get the Silver penalty if pardoned.


...When ten to the enemy’s one, surround him;

...When five times his strength, attack him;

...If double his strength, divide him;
...If equally matched you may engage him;
...If weaker numerically, be capable of withdrawing;
...And if in all respects unequal, be capable of eluding him,
...for a small force is but booty for one more powerful."

the Art of War, by Sun Tzu

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Im_Melliana_I_burn_you #2 Posted 03 February 2018 - 03:41 AM

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for that we have to see how many ff other units do but it s not a bad idea cause sometimes you are forced to ff or there is a "good" ff

 

But for ppl who ff a lot, i think something like other wargaming game can be good ; if you do many ff, your own units receive the damage. It can be verry worth and archer (or phalanx) will be forced to look where they shot and dont waste barrage to kill 3 poors guys and kill 2 full ally unit

 

But in HT there is no many ff so it s nice to see it s better in t8 9 10

 

but your post give me an idea^^

if you can do one sort of vote to forgive one player, why we dont think about add vote for one MVP?


Edited by Im_Melliana_I_burn_you, 03 February 2018 - 03:50 AM.

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Xarthare #3 Posted 03 February 2018 - 12:52 PM

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I disagree, friendly fire is a mechanic that is part from the game, and every action should have consequences. I already disapprove the ridiculous argument of good ff, because since that players just abuse it and nuke a unit, lets see why.

There are different cenarios, but i m going to express those i suffer.

a) sometimes i'm engaged versus three units, and i clearly know what i m doing, doesn't matter if i m using scipio or verci, but i know that by holding those units and keeping them engaged with mine i will do the damage i want and deplete them. Sometimes what will happen is players, with the excuse of the so called friendly fire, will just barrage you leading to 2 cenarios: they will kill your unit because it has its back faced to the arher that just clicked barrage, or it will damage the other team. Most cases what happens is the player with his back turned to the archers will just lose one unit there, where that unit could actually have done more damage than what it has done thanks to a barrage or any other kind of range ff, this ends up in you losing the unit, while the enemy doesn't take that much damage in some cases.

b)player with range units will always thinks their ff is acceptable, even if just damages one unit model.


So no, i don't think this should be a thing neither do i think we should enforece the idea of friendly fire acceptable, unless the player who is going to get nuked clearly says "nuke me or barrage".

I can understand why you ask this jojo, in matches that you play with friends it is acceptable to do ff because they won't be that mad towards you, but in random matchmaking the situation is not the same. I'm already saturated as it is with people using archers/slingers to shoot everything on sight.

 

SUNTZU_JoJo #4 Posted 03 February 2018 - 06:42 PM

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View PostXarthare, on 03 February 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

I disagree, friendly fire is a mechanic that is part from the game, and every action should have consequences. I already disapprove the ridiculous argument of good ff, because since that players just abuse it and nuke a unit, lets see why.

There are different cenarios, but i m going to express those i suffer.

a) sometimes i'm engaged versus three units, and i clearly know what i m doing, doesn't matter if i m using scipio or verci, but i know that by holding those units and keeping them engaged with mine i will do the damage i want and deplete them. Sometimes what will happen is players, with the excuse of the so called friendly fire, will just barrage you leading to 2 cenarios: they will kill your unit because it has its back faced to the arher that just clicked barrage, or it will damage the other team. Most cases what happens is the player with his back turned to the archers will just lose one unit there, where that unit could actually have done more damage than what it has done thanks to a barrage or any other kind of range ff, this ends up in you losing the unit, while the enemy doesn't take that much damage in some cases.

b)player with range units will always thinks their ff is acceptable, even if just damages one unit model.


So no, i don't think this should be a thing neither do i think we should enforece the idea of friendly fire acceptable, unless the player who is going to get nuked clearly says "nuke me or barrage".

I can understand why you ask this jojo, in matches that you play with friends it is acceptable to do ff because they won't be that mad towards you, but in random matchmaking the situation is not the same. I'm already saturated as it is with people using archers/slingers to shoot everything on sight.

 

 

I completely understand you position.

 

I feel the same way when I am in Phalanx and handling myself fine, all of a sudden other melee units run through my Phalanx or Cavalry charge the units I'm fighting, even though from the rear, they touch my Phalanx line because of a miscalculation with their charge angle.

This forces me to disengage Phalanx and take heavy losses (if against Germanicus with Vengeance for example).

 

In the end I ask myself: why should be the one to take damage from the enemy because I had to disengage Phalanx, just because of any Ally's misjudgment of the situation // and if I stay in Phalanx, I then suffer the FF silver penalty costs because of him.

It's a dilemma caused by another player's actions, which doesn't seem fair.

 

As for the Ranged units firing on everything they see, I have been on the receiving end of that FF too many times to ignore so I know the feeling 100% - now I ping the player who messed up & after 2 Pings, I message them in battle chat.


But the whole point of my suggestion is to give the players the chance to redeem themselves, and give other players the chance to forgive, especially if it was that player you said (barrage/nuke me) because it was his choice, so why shouldn't he be given the option to choose to waiver the FF penalty he allowed in the first place?

 

Honest question. :)

 

 

The situations you describe:

Response to (a): Then if the Archer player shoots you, you simply don't [pardon] him at the end of the battle, so he gets the FF penalty.

Response to (b): Having this option is specifically so that you, the person taking unit damage from ignorant archer player, chooses if their FF is justified or not.

"...unless the player who is going to get nuked clearly says "nuke me or barrage" <- This is exactly why I suggested this option in the first place, for those few situations where FF is worth it or approved by an Ally - because after the wipe, silver will not be abundant as it is now...


Appreciate you taking the time to share your opinion, and, if you have anything further to add - don't hesitate. :)


...When ten to the enemy’s one, surround him;

...When five times his strength, attack him;

...If double his strength, divide him;
...If equally matched you may engage him;
...If weaker numerically, be capable of withdrawing;
...And if in all respects unequal, be capable of eluding him,
...for a small force is but booty for one more powerful."

the Art of War, by Sun Tzu

Youtube Channel [ JoJo's GGs ] has gone live!


Xarthare #5 Posted 03 February 2018 - 06:57 PM

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Short story Jojo if you implement this ppl will start forgiving their friends for that sole reason, just because they are friends and sufferend ff from a friend, it will lead to arbitrary decisions, which i don't think is the best course of action. There are ppl that probably play 100 % of the time alone and how would it work for them ? Also if i play with my friends we would just pardon each other, since that is what friends do, we just don't care about little stuff ;p, or even if it was trolling eachother ;p

AstraeusTheTitan #6 Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:39 AM

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The silver penalty is mute as is... well my 1.5 mil surplus suggests so...

Im_Melliana_I_burn_you #7 Posted 04 February 2018 - 02:31 AM

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dont forgot we have xé2 xp and silver. And in HT you can lose more than 20k silver with that buff so imagine without...
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james_sobotowski #8 Posted 04 February 2018 - 07:12 PM

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If I find I'm losing in melee, especially if outnumbered I will often post "FF is ok" knowing that I will die anyway and any ranged units have a stationary target. I such circumstances I have already in effect pardoned players and I don't see why they should be penalised for carrying out my request

Jazz_Khanz #9 Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:02 PM

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View PostSUNTZU_JoJo, on 03 February 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

I would like to suggest the following:

 

If Player 1 deals Friendly Fire to Player 2.

At the end of a match - Player 2 is given the opportunity to [pardon] Player 1 for dealing Friendly Fire.

 

This can be useful, if Player 2 feels as if the Friendly Fire dealt was good Friendly Fire, considering the circumstances on the battlefield.

 

As a result of this, Player 1 doesn't get the Silver penalty if pardoned.

 

Majority of ppl can't see difference btw good FF and bad FF (I even wrote thread about it long time ago and ppl disagree with me).

Then how should we punish ppl who charge into your phalanx fight and screaming rise up pikes/ deactivate phalanx when u are already engaged and would lose your unit for nothing? Or you finally found your target and "helpful" (greedy) teammate want help you out and kill your target who got routed?
People who can't take brief moment, having awareness in middle of battle and find out when too engage and not too engage, when u find good target u can barrage e.g falxmen down and suddenly teammates melee rush into that melee engagement for no reason in straight of archer perfect arc?

 

I was against this x2FF long time ago as I know there will always be ppl will never learn or refuse too learn with FF mechanism, afraid it would be collective punishment as ppl abusing it with low FF mechanism. Instead punish one who doing on purpose.

 

I have both forgive accident FF (easy happen as well I have done accident FF too) and punish ppl who are doing purpose FF too get easy kills no matter how many time u write, ping and draw on the map....

 

I still don't understand why should hoplites doing FF? Are the greek hoplites so drunk on wine they can't aim with short spears?

 

Old post I wrote:  http://forum.totalwararena.net/index.php?/topic/968-any-good-solution-for-skirmisher-and-arty-ff/page__fromsearch__1

 

 

View Postjames_sobotowski, on 04 February 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

If I find I'm losing in melee, especially if outnumbered I will often post "FF is ok" knowing that I will die anyway and any ranged units have a stationary target. I such circumstances I have already in effect pardoned players and I don't see why they should be penalised for carrying out my request

 

The problem is the time too write and pinging on ur unit and it will be to late. Happen for me when I tried write so arty and skirmisher shoot in that blob....



Sincerely JaZZ


Edited by Jazz_Khanz, 04 February 2018 - 08:07 PM.

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