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FF penalty calculation


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SUNTZU_Mistrzu #1 Posted 26 October 2017 - 02:16 PM

    Centurio Hastatus Prior

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I really like the idea of scaling FF penalty - the more you FF the higher the multiplier gets. It raises an issue however that player who dealt 10k FF and 100 dmg to enemies will get the same penalty as a player who dealt 10k FF and 20k dmg to enemies and a guy who dealt 15k FF and 200k dmg to enemies will be penalised even more despite clearly being the best out of those 3 players.

 

People need to be aware that there is good and bad FF. Bad FF should be penalised more than it is right now and good FF should be penalised less.

 

I suggest (again...) that another variable should be introduced in calculating the amount of FF penalty at the end of a battle - total damage done to enemies. Simply compare the ratio of total damage done to enemies to FF damage, apply some formula on top of it and voilà. It can be as simple as dividing the FF penalty by that ratio so if you deal 10 times more damage to enemies than to allies your penalty is 10 times lower, if you deal 10 times more damage to allies than to enemies, your penalty is 10 times higher.

 

There is one potential hole (or not, depends how you look at it) in that system (still less holes than in the current one). A player could do a few volleys of very bad FF (let's say 10:1) and then for the rest of the battle he would deal no FF at all but still do a decent amount of damage. Some people would say he needs to be punished accordingly for that very bad FF, some can say he should be forgiven because it was a one timer and ultimately he did more good than bad for his team (that would also mean that people who do it by accident will be less penalised - something that phalanx players certainly know more than anyone). If the offender was to be punished accordingly for that very bad FF, the game would have to compare damage dealt to allies and enemies in that short period of time - relatively hard to implement and judge properly by a system. Not to mention that if someone deals pure FF in short amount of time, there can be a problem of dividing by 0 ;P

 

TL;DR:

- Incorporate ratio of FF to damage done to enemies to formula when calculating FF penalty at the end of a battle.

- It will mean lower penalties for those who do good FF (a lot of damage to enemies when compared to damage to allies)

- It will also mean higher penalties for those who do bad FF (a lot of damage to allies when compared to damage to enemies)

- It will also mean more forgiving system for accidental FF (for example when an ally walks through your phalanx)

- It can mean that players who do bad FF but then do no FF for the rest of the battle while still dealing damage to enemies can be penalised less than they should in some people's eyes. In my opinion that's far lesser evil compared to current system/formula.


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RaptorAbt #2 Posted 28 October 2017 - 09:28 AM

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The current FF notification system to the player is non-existent (apart from the obvious visual battle indicator of clouds of yellow numbers instead of blue), and as its CB most player do not appear to be bothered as their history will soon get a WIPE. The only other "indicator" if they look at the battle report with a RED Silver value, but will it stop them - unlikely.  

 

OP's suggestion to hit the "pocket" is a good way - (I suggest (again...) that another variable should be introduced in calculating the amount of FF penalty at the end of a battle - total damage done to enemies. Simply compare the ratio of total damage done to enemies to FF damage, apply some formula on top of it and voilà. It can be as simple as dividing the FF penalty by that ratio so if you deal 10 times more damage to enemies than to allies your penalty is 10 times lower, if you deal 10 times more damage to allies than to enemies, your penalty is 10 times higher).

 

Also incorporating a visible Player FF warning, would be by "turning PINK" (as per WoWs), to clearly warn a player he/she is doing too much FF v's Legitimate damage.  Removed only when the player has done 4/5 battles with "better" results! The stigma of being Pink certainly does change a players game style. (in most cases).

 



SUNTZU_Tomulus #3 Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:49 PM

    Tiro

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The current FF notification and penelty system is not good enough.

I agree with SUNTZU_Mistrzu suggestion to change it.

People still do a lot of FF and don't understand what the are doing or just they have fun to kill enemies and allies, just don't care about allies and care only about enemy kills statistics. On the over hand, sometimes ppl do a lot of dmg to enemies and much less to allies in the same time. The problem is to define where it is ok and when not. Proper index could help solve this problem.

How make  this index? It should calculates in proper time when you do dmg to alllies and enemies in the same time and for this time calculate the ratio.

 

I suggest 20% vs 80%. If you do 80% dmg to enemies and only 20% to allies, it should be neutral, if the ratio is worst you will get penelties in such proportions: 

- 20% allies vs 80% enemies and better ratio = no penelty at all

- 30% allies vs 70% enemies= indeks 0,43 x base penelty (30/70)

- 40% allies vs 60% enemies= indeks 0,67 x base penelty (40/60)

- 50% allies vs 50% enemies= indeks 1 x base penelty (50/50)

- 60% allies vs 40% enemies= indeks 1,5 x base penelty (60/40)

- 70% allies vs 30% enemies= indeks 2,3 x base penelty (70/30)

- 80% allies vs 20% enemies= indeks 4 x base penelty (80/20)

- 90% allies vs 10% enemies= indeks 9 x base penelty (90/10)

- 100% allies vs 0% enemies= indeks 100 x base penelty (except situation that your ally came through your pikes/stakes of his foult)

 

The penelty should not be bigger than established maximum level of penelty.

 

Therefore, notification about FF should be much more red and big during doing it and also there should be final summary of FF at the end of battle. If some do a lot of bad FF 3 again and again in diffirent matches, penelties should be much more radical.

 

The system of preventing FF and penelties  should be accurate to the foult.

 

 

 

 



XIIl_DarkDusT #4 Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:06 AM

    Munifex

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Totaly agree, 

- 20% allies vs 80% enemies and better ratio = no penelty at all

- 30% allies vs 70% enemies= indeks 0,43 x base penelty (30/70)

- 40% allies vs 60% enemies= indeks 0,67 x base penelty (40/60)

- 50% allies vs 50% enemies= indeks 1 x base penelty (50/50)

- 60% allies vs 40% enemies= indeks 1,5 x base penelty (60/40)

- 70% allies vs 30% enemies= indeks 2,3 x base penelty (70/30)

- 80% allies vs 20% enemies= indeks 4 x base penelty (80/20)

- 90% allies vs 10% enemies= indeks 9 x base penelty (90/10)

- 100% allies vs 0% enemies= indeks 100 x base penelty (except situation that your ally came through your pikes/stakes of his foult)

 

This would make perfect sense, right now, public archers are awfull to have to play with in lower tier's, and higher tiers beeing the archer in your squad just feels bad.

A great improvement to the new player and community.



silveria #5 Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:00 AM

    Tiro

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I think there should be a audio warning you should be able to send to other players to get them to stop firing on your troops might be a good idee to implement, after several warning a report could be warranted aswell.

 

Im just getting a little tired of having my troops deleted from the field from allied fire.



PaiNzzz #6 Posted 10 January 2018 - 12:50 PM

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I main archers (and secondarily pikes), which from the few things I've learned so far do the most FF usually. I hear a lot of people complaining about archer FF -and sadly I've tasted some- so much, mostly being right, but that sometimes reaches levels of extreme exaggeration. Let me say that 20% of total damage being FF seems to me a pretty high percentage, one that I would avoid at all costs and would consider that game kind of a failure if I ended up with so much FF.

 

The system could span a period further than a single battle, much to how WoT determines the suspension from friendly fire. So for example having one bad game with too much FF while your overall FF is a mere 1,36% would be penalised less. However, the time period or games played should be just enough to cover a couple of bad games or let the player adjust to a steep learning curve when playing new units.

 

*Edit* The above system I suggest is not only intended to penalise good players less, I forgot to mention that players that have overwhelming FF damage, let's say an exaggerated 50% on his last 20 battles should be heavily penalised an probably issued a warning. Not a warning as in ban warning, but a warning along the lines of "You are consistently dealing a high amount of friendly fire, thus your rewards are greatly reduced for as long as this condition lasts. Reduce friendly damage to rectify your status." or something.


Edited by PaiNzzz, 10 January 2018 - 02:31 PM.


Jubblator #7 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:45 PM

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I still want FF against own troops to be gone from score calculations (if it hasnt, as far as i know it is still there). 

Also the FF needs to show up for everyone to see on the score screen, i hate it now when a player just blatantly disregards doing a ton of FF damage and then can just claim he didnt do any because only he sees the score.


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