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Archer/slinger imbalance


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Smacks21 #21 Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:50 PM

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Time for your archers to put slingers in range and they are already dead... Not playing these units but what I can see is that archers have no chances to win against slingers.

Range is a BIG advantage... Probably more than damages... Slinger has both and start firing before units can see him (and whats arround him).

It make sense to me that slingers should deal less damages than archers.

Javelin VS archers : Javelins take 1 or 2 shots and start firing... Archers are dead (not talking about commander abilities, its units vs units here, from experienced battle from T1 to T5...).

Comp4ny #22 Posted 12 September 2017 - 10:53 PM

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...and a Slinger has a really problem. Maybe not everytime complete dead... but there Firepower is done when you can get in Range.

Yes Slingers have Shild, yes its blocked a few Arrows, but she can't Block hundrets Arrows. Slingers are not Spartans like the Movie "300" :happy:

 

But yes... the Range of the Slingers are to big.


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nikepetros #23 Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:16 AM

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If I recall correctly, in RTW2  slingers have less range and more zap damage than archers.

what4_ #24 Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:33 AM

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@nikepetros: You are wrong.

In RTW2 Slingers have overall greater range but they also have greater AP damage. In a fight archers against slingers usually the archers will win, but slingers are infantry-killer which even can be used against high armored infantry like legionaries. Also slingers have more munition.

There are some exceptions in the game (like cretan archers or germanic slingers) but overall archers beat slingers.

 

 

Thats for rome 2. But I´m with Jojo on this one. Slingers are a highly specialiced unit (anti archer) and should win this fight quite easily.


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Smacks21 #25 Posted 13 September 2017 - 04:00 PM

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Just a question...
If slingers have a better range than archers and deal as many damages... Why should players use archers ?

Another exemple I see today... The beginning of a fight. An ennemy cav scouting and our 3 slingers start to fire (without being discovered).
Cavalery units = 2/3 dead.
This is impossible with archer because you have to be too close. When archer can shoot cavalery... Cavalery can nearly charge archers.

I really ask myself why players still uses this useless archers... (no no dont answer firing up buildings and walls ...  there is no map where this is a huge advatange... And archers deals less damages than while using direct shots)


nikepetros #26 Posted 13 September 2017 - 04:59 PM

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View PostSmacks21, on 13 September 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

Just a question...
If slingers have a better range than archers and deal as many damages... Why should players use archers ?

Another exemple I see today... The beginning of a fight. An ennemy cav scouting and our 3 slingers start to fire (without being discovered).
Cavalery units = 2/3 dead.
This is impossible with archer because you have to be too close. When archer can shoot cavalery... Cavalery can nearly charge archers.

I really ask myself why players still uses this useless archers... (no no dont answer firing up buildings and walls ... there is no map where this is a huge advatange... And archers deals less damages than while using direct shots)

 

I think archers are doing better in forest because the high angle, slingers in forest seems to be less effective.

 

Atm barb archers are the better choice due to higher protection, they are able to win a 1v1 shoot out with slingers (fair condition).



what4_ #27 Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:31 PM

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You can use archers behind your allied troops. For example you can place 1 spear/pike in front of your archers and they are able to shoot above them. Slingers aren´t able to do that. They have to have free line of sight onto the enemy they want to shoot. So not only buildings, but also allied troops are a problem. 

And against armored opponents they should have problems dealing that much damage. So archers are kind of easier to play, especially when speaking of ff. 

Archers and slingers both have their authorization to be there.


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Panssarikauhu2k #28 Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:39 PM

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I play archers alot, and i can say that armor piercing between bow and sling is a joke. Bows should have alot more ap that sling because range is alot worse.

+ slings has better rate of fire.


Edited by Panssarikauhu2k, 13 September 2017 - 06:41 PM.


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nikepetros #30 Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:42 AM

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View PostPanssarikauhu2k, on 13 September 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

I play archers alot, and i can say that armor piercing between bow and sling is a joke. Bows should have alot more ap that sling because range is alot worse.

+ slings has better rate of fire.

 

Reload time;

Archer = 4

Slinger = 5

Catapult = 9



Smacks21 #31 Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:00 PM

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I just experience a battle where slingers can kill me even if they had no direct view to my units... okay, at the begining they have one but I was next a big rocks so I try to hide...

they can shoot 4 more times on my principes (T5 vs T5 slingers)... 5 times on my units with little rock and bye bye heavy infantery. It seems to be more powerfull than a javelin^^



nikepetros #32 Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:33 PM

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View PostSmacks21, on 17 September 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

I just experience a battle where slingers can kill me even if they had no direct view to my units... okay, at the begining they have one but I was next a big rocks so I try to hide...

they can shoot 4 more times on my principes (T5 vs T5 slingers)... 5 times on my units with little rock and bye bye heavy infantery. It seems to be more powerfull than a javelin^^

 

Did you turn you back on them?

what4_ #33 Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:05 AM

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@Smacks21: Maybe it was Cynane with hunt-ablity?

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Smacks21 #34 Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:57 AM

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Not sure but he did it twice in a short time on 2 different units. But maybe, I can't say because i was just looking at my 3 units dying (2 of them were very close to each other).

Comp4ny #35 Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:03 AM

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View PostSmacks21, on 17 September 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

I just experience a battle where slingers can kill me even if they had no direct view to my units... okay, at the begining they have one but I was next a big rocks so I try to hide...

they can shoot 4 more times on my principes (T5 vs T5 slingers)... 5 times on my units with little rock and bye bye heavy infantery. It seems to be more powerfull than a javelin^^

 

"Hunting Sight" Ability.

There allow you to mark an Enemy and can see you ... i remember me 40 sec? ... in the Fog-of-War and behind Rocks etc. So he can shot you everytime in Range.


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Karrade #36 Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:17 PM

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I do agree. I play armored infantry mostly now, so it isn't a bias here. But I do feel slingers are more dangerous to face than archers, and when I see them firing at each other they trade about evenly, which they shouldn't.
As an unrelated note, I am not sure if testudo is more effective against slingers because I don't see as many archers to compare either way.

nikepetros #37 Posted 18 September 2017 - 03:42 PM

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View Postwhat4_, on 13 September 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

@nikepetros: You are wrong.

In RTW2 Slingers have overall greater range but they also have greater AP damage. In a fight archers against slingers usually the archers will win, but slingers are infantry-killer which even can be used against high armored infantry like legionaries. Also slingers have more munition.

There are some exceptions in the game (like cretan archers or germanic slingers) but overall archers beat slingers.

 

 

Thats for rome 2. But I´m with Jojo on this one. Slingers are a highly specialiced unit (anti archer) and should win this fight quite easily.

 

May be Arena should go the RTW2 way.

what4_ #38 Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:35 AM

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Maybe it should, but that would reverse their current role in the game. Historically it would make more sense at least if they would be anti-heavy.

 

 

Karrade

 But I do feel slingers are more dangerous to face than archers, and when I see them firing at each other they trade about evenly, which they shouldn't.

 Can you clearify what you mean with that? Do you mean archers and slingers do quite evenly against each other?

 


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Lord_Of_Law #39 Posted 18 October 2017 - 04:12 PM

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Archers and Slingers are overpower. Pls Balance!

Pl0xPl0x #40 Posted 20 October 2017 - 11:53 AM

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I think this game really has an imbalance when it comes to range. Ranged fire in this game is just so good, especially long ranged like artillery and slingers. The abililty to just stay back and shoot infinitely until all enemys drop is way too good of a tactic right now and there is really no drawback. I think ca should really reconsider implementing an ammo system as I dont see any other way that would make ranged balanced.




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