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Your playstyles with pikes/spears?


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nikepetros #21 Posted 21 September 2017 - 03:59 PM

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View PostRocking It, on 19 September 2017 - 05:15 PM, said:

 

So whats the point on playing pikeman? In paper seems worst than hoplites

 

Macedonians have used pike phalanx to deny enemy forwarding, their left flank usally coverd by light cavalry and their right flank by the "shield bearers" (some elite hoplites) and right beside the "shield bearers" stands the companion cavalry.

 

I don't know where the skirmishers were placing.

 

But pikes are a part of macedonians combined warfare and their job was keep enemy at bay, in game you can combine them with ranged.

 

If i recall correctly paiku combine them with slingers sometimes.



ThatPikeGuy #22 Posted 21 September 2017 - 04:40 PM

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Not playing with slingers anymore as they were just slowing the pikes down by making them catch up with slings and only triple pike setup allows me to play the pikes how I want.



ThatPikeGuy #23 Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:52 AM

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I'd like to describe the problems with the aggressive playstyle was that the higher tier you go, the more you'll get punished for overextending.

First, all the abilities are off cooldown at the beginning of the matches and you won't be able to tank barrages or hold against fear just as easily as on lower tiers. Also, dogs and cavalry are going to be in full health and waiting for an opportunity to get into an opening.

While your team might get that much more coordinated, you can't really be that quick to support the pike player pushing in, with the exception of dogs.

Anything else just slows the pikes down.

 

Second, only Cynane is somewhat viable with this playstyle since Leo can just get focused down by pretty much anything, Mili isn't able to use break ranks in phalanx (even if you use it for mobility, it gets disabled after you pop phalanx) +fear doesn't help much if you're chased by multiple units and Alexander has almost no practical use. Getting used to the timing of pike phalanx and to not pop it preemptively can also take some time.

 

Like I dunno, I was seeing quite a lot of pike players try this playstyle out but maybe I left something out that could help them heaps like, for example, I didn't explain target priorities and how one should deploy phalanx to get the most damage reliably.



ThatPikeGuy #24 Posted 22 September 2017 - 10:02 AM

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For higher tiers (T7+) I've adapted a new playstyle - bushpiking. YES, THE BUSHPIKING FROM STEAM IS BACK OHOHOHOHOH>: D

(The reason why I've moved over from just aggressive playstyle is described above).

The fundamentals for aggressive piking are still there, but I had to change the playstyle a bit to make pikes work in higher tiers.

 

So what exactly has been changed?

Nothing too much really, it's mostly the approach to catching the units and ways of protecting oneself has been changed.

 

Attacking the units:

Since players are a lot more cautious and the units are sturdier, you can't really do much if you just rush in a choke or mid to block the units off.

What I've changed is that I'm splitting the pikes up to sandwich in the units or just press them up against a wall/cliff to not let them escape.

How I get this to work is simple - stay concealed till you see an opportunity to trap units in.

By going through the unit and turning to the opposite site you can sandwich the enemy units, which requires 2-3 pike units and by moving to the edge of the unit and turning to face the edge of the wall can make them trapped in with just a single pike unit, maybe an extra unit for protection.

 

How set up the traps with pikes?

By using forests, bushes, cliffs and chokes you can flank the enemy without being seen for a long enough time or to at least cut off their retreat path. Keep at least one unit up front to scout ahead to see when it's a good opportunity to go out and attack.

This is surprisingly effective due to how unexpected pikes popping out of nowhere can get.

 

To make them work you have to constantly peel off units to support the pike units going in the open, which means that you have to use the unit in front to protect the pike units going out in the open to catch the enemies. The supporting unit will most likely be engaged by other units, which can also open an opportunity to trap the enemies in afterwards.

 

If aggressive piking is focused on attacking the flanks and mid, then where does this playstyle fit in?

Well, if you can get into a forest/bushes in the opposite side of the map then sure it will work even when attacking a base or stick to the side of the main army to flank the enemy when they're engaged.

If you don't want to risk being seen then the playstyle works best in the bushes of your team's side of the map.

 

In the forests/bushes it can ironically enough be pretty risky to pike because of how exposed your pikes are against barbarians (especially dogs) and cavalry. This is why sticking with cavalry isn't such a bad idea.

(ofc this isn't an issue when you're defending lol)

The most front unit in the beggining of the game has to be always ready to pop phalanx in time to respond to enemy units, so try to buy the helmets that increase visibility range and always have the finger on the first ability key... or the second... the third?! depends which pikes you're using haha

 

Do you necessarily have to use forests and bushes to conceal yourself?

Not really, you'd actually be surprised how well cliffs can conceal your units for example.

Also cliffs can easily work as funnels for the enemy, so you can be perfectly fine by just playing around cliffs.

 

Defending:

You can always stick with any unit you can or go into bushes till you see the enemy engage someone or when they go to base.

 

Best commanders:

You can actually use Leonidas because you can actually use shield bash in conjunction with the short visibility to throw players off-guard. This and battlecry can act as a failsafe if your pikes don't activate phalanx in time. You can be a lot more aggressive in the bushes due to how safe your pikes are from surprise attacks.

Cynane is still the best commander because her pikes can just pass through and push enemies in so that you don't have to worry about them running away. Unlike Leonidas you can be more aggressive once you step out to trap the enemies in.

 

Best compositions:

Definitely triple pikes, the extra protection for when you go out of the bushes is that necessary.

You can bring 1 missile unit actually if you're playing Leo just because of how disgusting shield bash is.



nikepetros #25 Posted 22 September 2017 - 12:17 PM

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I'm still trying how to pike more efficiently, recently trying Alexander pike, because of anvil.

ThatPikeGuy #26 Posted 22 September 2017 - 02:35 PM

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View Postnikepetros, on 22 September 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

I'm still trying how to pike more efficiently, recently trying Alexander pike, because of anvil.

 

Anvil on pikes is interesting though I never really tried it. Last time I tested it, it only worked when the pikemen themselves touch the unit (they have to be in combat basically) and the effect lasts as long as you're in combat, so retreating from an anvil is basically like retreating from oath.

I really should check Alex's pikes, maybe I'll grow to like them as much as on Steam version :0

 

For efficiency, what helps me heaps against infantry are unit highlights. Seeing individual soldiers pop up especially in the forest can help with the timing of phalanx, and it can help you see if your pikes are about to be in-combat to avoid some bullshit moments.

Positioning and engagement wise it's actually best to pop phalanx at the last possible moment and disengage as early as possible. It's not worth going for a couple of more kills if it means your teammates are blocked or the pike unit will die. ofc it's easier when you have a choke to hold but what are the chances of getting into situations like those haha

Jakerp #27 Posted 23 September 2017 - 09:34 AM

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View PostThatPikeGuy, on 22 September 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

 

Anvil on pikes is interesting though I never really tried it. Last time I tested it, it only worked when the pikemen themselves touch the unit (they have to be in combat basically) and the effect lasts as long as you're in combat, so retreating from an anvil is basically like retreating from oath.

I really should check Alex's pikes, maybe I'll grow to like them as much as on Steam version :0

 

For efficiency, what helps me heaps against infantry are unit highlights. Seeing individual soldiers pop up especially in the forest can help with the timing of phalanx, and it can help you see if your pikes are about to be in-combat to avoid some bullshit moments.

Positioning and engagement wise it's actually best to pop phalanx at the last possible moment and disengage as early as possible. It's not worth going for a couple of more kills if it means your teammates are blocked or the pike unit will die. ofc it's easier when you have a choke to hold but what are the chances of getting into situations like those haha

 

Yeah anvil is not very useful for pikes as you need to touch enemy with your men. Just pikes touching them with pike wont work. At some point I used to play Alexander a lot with 1 cav, 1 pike, 1 archer build and I almoust never used anvil.

 

I used my pikes to hold choke points and shoot enemy inf with my archer unit when enemy inf started trying to flank me I ambushed and rear charged them with my cav or just harassed flanking unit with cav so he cant keep flanking and have to stand in missile fire forever trying to avoid eating rear charge. That build worked almoust againt anything only problem was that it is most micromanagement intensive way to play this game. :D


Edited by Jakerp, 23 September 2017 - 09:35 AM.


nikepetros #28 Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:30 AM

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View PostThatPikeGuy, on 22 September 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

 

Anvil on pikes is interesting though I never really tried it. Last time I tested it, it only worked when the pikemen themselves touch the unit (they have to be in combat basically) and the effect lasts as long as you're in combat, so retreating from an anvil is basically like retreating from oath.

I really should check Alex's pikes, maybe I'll grow to like them as much as on Steam version :0

 

For efficiency, what helps me heaps against infantry are unit highlights. Seeing individual soldiers pop up especially in the forest can help with the timing of phalanx, and it can help you see if your pikes are about to be in-combat to avoid some bullshit moments.

Positioning and engagement wise it's actually best to pop phalanx at the last possible moment and disengage as early as possible. It's not worth going for a couple of more kills if it means your teammates are blocked or the pike unit will die. ofc it's easier when you have a choke to hold but what are the chances of getting into situations like those haha

 

What I experienced is that you have to walk in and attack click the unit before you anvil.





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